Humanity and the Sociopathic Mind

[tinhuvielartanis]

A friend of mine and I were discussing psychology and how someone one on a message board, a avowed psychopath, presented flawless logic about the state of humanity. We bantered back and forth a bit about this person's uncanny insight, when I wrote this.

It's always been my contention that, turn off the electricity for three days, and we'll see this civilised mask that humanity wears so smugly, ripped off by the hungry, angry mob.  Within a week, public burnings and torture would become the new entertainment, within a month, slavery would be the norm and a feudal system of rule would be established (if they're lucky).

 

Humanity has always been nothing more than chimps in clothes, carrying clubs and waiting for the next big brawl.  But they don't like to reminded of this, so they label those people who make their true state of existence as being psychopathic, sociopathic, or anti-social.  It's easier to label someone than it is to look in the mirror.

Guess it's time for me to be labeled. Please proceed.

Comments

[batkisses.livejournal.com]

Labels... "fellow person of logic and awesome." There. :)
“These civilized people, they'll eat each other.”
So so true.
If believing that makes me a psychopath, or whatever, okay please lock us up in Arkham with J. Hahaha. ;)

[tinhuviel.livejournal.com]

*snork* so very right. She actually responded to my rant with the interrogation quote, saying it was disturbingly true.

I find nothing disturbing about it. I look forward to the Alpaca Lips. Guess I just want to watch the world burn. ;P

[batkisses.livejournal.com]

I was only disturbed a little after my first time, but it wasn't really so much 'disturbed' as it was more like I hadn't fully accepted my J-ness yet, and it was 'hmm, his logic is making perfect sense to me... what does that say about me?” heh. Also thinking I must be the only one. And now, well now as we know, I'm completely confident in my innate J-ness. And I probably would be still even if I WAS the only one. But as we know, we have wonderful comrades such as yourself... wouldn't want to be anything but a jgirl. We have more fun. ;)
Yep send that message, Joker. “Everything burns.”

Oh btw, did that voice post work for ya? This inquiring mind wants to know heh.

[tinhuviel.livejournal.com]

haven't had a chance to check it yet. Have LJ up and TJB You Tube channel along with TJB.com and that's it. Listening to Prodigy to help me zip through my Project faster, because they piss me off and motivate me all at once. May be tomorrow, as I'll be working all night. Is that okay?

[batkisses.livejournal.com]

More than fine, love. I know you want to, so whenever you get to it. :) [Was really just curious, as I have no idea if those things ever expire or not. ...which if they do, I'm sure it would've been quite a while ago now anyway.]

[tinhuviel.livejournal.com]

And this is why Agent Smith from the Matrix is my hero. He pretty much describes humanity for what it is but, since he's a program, he's never labled a psychopath or sociopath. Had he been human, well.... that's a different matter.

Either way, we're a fucking virus.

[gatheringrivers]

Either way, we're a fucking virus.

A boil on the buttocks of the world!

Sorry, random thought from ooooold episodes of MASH.

[tinhuviel.livejournal.com]

MASH had it going on.

[acook.livejournal.com]

No... just... nope. Biologically speaking, there is no reason that - even in a state of total "anarchy" - people would destroy each other in such a way. Altruism is bred into our genetic make-up, it is how ape societies FUNCTION. Yes, apes have moments of cruelty (baboons are much worse), but it is always in order to keep the peace, establish power, and maintain the GROUP.

Societies have (and still) exist without electricity and other modern conveniences. And while it's true that things in the West might get scary for a few generations if things like that were suddenly ripped away, once the population got under control there is no reason that people would continue to shred eachother. Millions of years of evolution have favored reciprocal altruism, pair bonding, and kin-bonded groups. I see no reason that we would suddenly turn into cannibalistic demons.

Now, I'm not saying that disconnect the west tomorrow and things are going to be all hand holding and flowers. People will die, and things will get horrific, but only as a natural process of survival; and I don't think that reflects morality. There are simply too many people here to survive without electricity and such, and no one is going to give up their life easily, yet another factor of evolution. I don't think people are going to be torturing each other for entertainment; people are going to be protecting their FAMILIES. Maybe in gruesome and selfish ways, but there's no reason to believe that people are suddenly going to become "evil" overnight.

Just my thoughts on that.

[angstzeit.livejournal.com]

People will continue to shred each other regardless. The difference between anarchy and civilization is random shredding versus the codification of shredding.

[tinhuviel.livejournal.com]

We'll shred until there's nothing left to shred.

[tinhuviel.livejournal.com]

You're young and optimistic. Chimps are aggressive bastards. Bonobos, on the other hand, being matriarchal, are quite different. If we were closer to bonobos, perhaps we'd have a chance. But we're in the process of destroying our planet in much the same way a cancer destroys the body. Once the body is unable to support us, we'll die...and good riddance.

[acook.livejournal.com]

Notice I never said we WEREN'T destroying the planet. I simply was addressing the idea of biologically ingrained reciprocal altruism, which is common in ALL human societies (the only other animal in which it appears, interestingly, is the vampire bat). Humanity's destruction of the planet has a lot more to do with pseudo Christian Western ideals in which man is the center of the universe and not very much to do with humans tearing each other to pieces. Most of human cruelty is a result of apathy, not sadism.

And to address chimps once more, only a very select group of powerful males do any of the aggression. Yes, this sometimes includes the random murder of babies (which are seen as a reproductive threat), but it's never done out of "cruelty." I literally just finished an honors course in human evolution in which most of these issues were addressed. Ape "savagery" is really not as savage as most people think. It has a structure and logic to it that is not entirely different than how human society (and ALL humans have society no matter how "primitive") functions, which is to maintain the group order. Behaviorally, humans are considered much more similar to Bonobos (probably a result of our reduced sexual dimorphism just like the Bonobo) and probably evolved from an offshoot in the middle of the Bonobo/Chimp line.

Really, I could go on and on. But the best thing to do is really just to read a book on human and ape evolution. Yes, we're apes. But no, apes aren't mindless terrorizors. I think apathy and ignorance are much more dangerous societal hazards and are harder to root out than "psychopaths" and easy stigmatized targets which cover up much deeper societal issues.

[acook.livejournal.com]

The reason I'm getting all preachy about this is because I'm working on that Riddler drawing. I see the Joker as agreeing with you 100000% but the Riddler being the antithesis, taking the argument I've just laid out. What I mean is, I've had this stuff in my head all day. Riddler would suggest that people in a chaos state wouldn't "shred" each other in a bloody and violent melee, but that they would systematically fight for their own survival in Machiavellian and apathetic ways that aren't as overtly violent.

[tinhuviel.livejournal.com]

Actually this has nothing to do the J, but I agree he'd agree with me. And all the pseudo-sociological studies (human-centric by the way) won't change my mind from years of simple observation of people. Hands-on education trumps education every single time. And, from what I've seen, altruism is conditional in humanity and stops when said human doesn't get what s/he expects back.

As we say in the South, humanity "needs killin'."

[acook.livejournal.com]

Considering that my parents shoveled money into college for the last two years, I feel like I have to defend academia a little bit. I never quoted any "pseudo-science" in my arguments. Everything I referenced is from very well documented anthropological research (I didn't give you a bibliography or anything, but you know what I mean), which has nothing to do with surveys, studies, or even human society for the most part. Trust me, after taking that anthro class I can tell you that there's nothing "pseudo-scientific" about it, it's very cut and dry comparing anatomy and tons and tons of field research. I was just trying to present a scientific point of view by giving examples from millions of years of ape and human behavior. Having also taken my share of cultural studies (which is neck deep in pseudo science and half-truths) I would hope I would be able to tell the difference between a well-documented scientific theory and a load of academic crap.

So. Yeah. Again, I re-iterate the value of academic education. Education is almost inextricably tied to these issues anyway. The reason we would not plummet immediately into a second dark age if the lights were turned off is because, unlike the dark ages, most Americans can read, are reasonably well educated, and don't believe in witches. Mass education is a powerful powerful thing, and that includes good old fashioned book learnin'.

I dunno. I'm very proud of my academics and that comment sort of got under my skin a bit. Sorry.

[tinhuviel.livejournal.com]

You don't have to apologise. I too absorbed my academia but, over the years, I've found it wanting in the face of actual experience. As I said, you're young and optimistic. I'd say that, with time, you may become as old and jaded as I; however, the Alpaca Lips will happen and you'll never know the joys of sociopathic misanthropy! ;)

[gatheringrivers]

...so they label those people who make their true state of existence as being psychopathic, sociopathic, or anti-social. It's easier to label someone than it is to look in the mirror.

*cleans the mirror with some windex*
*Hands it back to random labeler*
*watches them look in the mirror, scream and run away*

Hmmmf. Some people just never appreciate anything.

*Picks up the mirror and looks in it*

Hello, me. :-)

[tinhuviel.livejournal.com]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHA!

[razzle.livejournal.com]

I know chimps can be violent but jeez, no need to insult them like that!

*wink*

[tinhuviel.livejournal.com]

*sigh*

Ya know? You're right. We are, by far, the worst species on the planet.

[gunslingaaahhh.livejournal.com]

it makes a lot of sense, it really does. because in a sense its true -- and its been proven true many times. "when the chips are down? these civilized people? they eat each other."

im of the mind that human beings are like sheep: easily lead. like one big group mind, all thinking and doing and acting the same, because we are told to do so.

[tinhuviel.livejournal.com]

Being the type of person that I am, you know that I cannot disagree with you.

[gunslingaaahhh.livejournal.com]

cant disagree? is my word ~law~ all of a sudden? ;)

i could go on and on and on about my feelings for humanity lol.

[zaecus.livejournal.com]

There will be outposts.

Some, possibly most, will be manned by well-equipped chimps in suits. These will last as long as they can maintain their internal stability. Of course, the only way they can really do that will be public punishments. Different reasons, same result.

Other outposts will have far less trouble maintaining internal stability in the short run because they would be of like mind. The more immediate problem would be security. These outposts would be prime targets for roving bands of modern day raiders. in the long term, successive generations might be less content with the status quo, and the group would have to decide how they would deal with those who are deemed no longer able to work within the community and those who choose to look elsewhere.

[tinhuviel.livejournal.com]

Assuming the situation is unfortunate enough to allow for any survivors at all. I love it when you reappear out of nowhere. I miss you.